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Concerns about an Amazon reseller / drop shipper, ToyCentric

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13 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

It is a valid reason to cancel an item if it does not match the buyer's address. The seller loses all Seller Protection this way. However, I just checked my last two orders from him and both were shipped to addresses that showed up as "Confirmed" in Paypal, which means he must manually add the address to his Paypal, right? I don't see his real address on any order, just his name and the customers next to the confirmed line, so I think you can't cancel and get the feedback removed. Thoughts on this?

Correct they put it on as one of there confirmed addresses in PayPal so when the payment is made it's confirmed.  Just like if you were to put a 2nd home address or family relative.  

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So I guess everyone who is cool with drop-shipping would also be happy if their health insurance company started charging you chain smoker rates, or based car insurance on any zip code they like. Risk pool for amazon buyers is completely different from eBay buyers and statistically over the long run you will lose big. It is completely unfair and dishonest for an amazon drop shipper to force their risk pool on someone without asking and the associated proper compensation. That’s why different folks get different insurance premiums.

 

 

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So I guess everyone who is cool with drop-shipping would also be happy if their health insurance company started charging you chain smoker rates, or based car insurance on any zip code they like. Risk pool for amazon buyers is completely different from eBay buyers and statistically over the long run you will lose big. It is completely unfair and dishonest for an amazon drop shipper to force their risk pool on someone without asking and the associated proper compensation. That’s why different folks get different insurance premiums.
 
 
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I’m not okay with it, but there isn’t much I can do beyond block them moving forward. I do a lot of business with FBA folks, but it’s nearly always in bulk to their home address, where I imagine they take the time to inspect and repackage before sending off.

Looking at the feedback he’s received on Amazon and left on eBay it’s pretty clear he’s been outed to Amazon on more than one occasion. I’m guessing they don’t care because of the volume of sales he does.


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We should start a poll. How many Brickpickers have shipped for him? I got my hand up. He has bought a few relativity expensive sets from me this season, with no problems. I shipped a SSD 10221 this morning and come home to read this forum🤔.

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I still do not see what the big deal is.  When the buyer is happy, Toycentric does not leave negative feedbacks.  Yes, your ego gets a hit since someone obviously makes money off of your listing, but at the end of the day you get the price you asked for the item.

When the buyer complains, Toycentric gets whatever neg feedback on the Amazon side and he neg you on eBay side.  How is it any different than some lunatic buyer on eBay buying from you directly then complain ??

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The issue I see is risk, and the person shipping the item bears the brunt of the risk in these 3-party / drop-shipping transactions.  Fulfilling drop-shipping orders raises the risk of someone being unhappy with your service: both the end buyer (who may feel they didn't get 'value' on their end of the transaction) and the drop-shipper (e.g. if you don't ship 'fast' enough) may cause the transaction to go bad.  Buyers on Amazon expect a certain level of service.  Transferring that expectation onto an unsuspecting ebay seller raises risk, inappropriately in my mind.

Unhappy customers are not repeat customers.  With drop-shipping, neither the buyer nor the shipper have direct contact, so it's much more difficult to communicate, solve issues, and keep the customer happy.  This question popped up on an FBA item I had in stock a while back: "Ebay shipped to me 60.94. Where is my difference 24.3?"  How is the drop-shipper going to handle this?  "if you're unhappy, return it."  Where as if the transaction had happened directly on ebay, the buyer probably be happier by seeing more value in the transaction, by getting the identical item $24.30 cheaper.

If they were upfront about it, and offered additional compensation for the risk, then I'd probably be OK with it.  But deceiving the shipper by claiming "this is a gift" is total ****.  Tell the truth, and act in ways that make it easy to tell the truth.  The typical drop-shipper does neither.  

Drop-shippers drive me nuts, and I'm happy to have avoided them this year. 

 

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My only annoyance with these dropship shenanigans is that I deemed the set not worthy of an FBA sale (damaged box), so I listed it on EBay instead with clear pictures. Now this dropshipper gets my FBA sale - I could have just taken the gamble myself.
Yup...80 percent of my sets on Ebay have some sort of defect...damaged boxes..ranging from severely creased, punctured boxes, dented corners, to just looking shelf worn. I'd say about 20 to 30 percent of my buyers on those sets are drop shippers. I wouldn't gamble my Amazon account but to each their own I guess. Makes me wonder what all of us consider worthy of sending to Amazon for resale.

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18 minutes ago, LegoBro said:
8 hours ago, Phil B said:
My only annoyance with these dropship shenanigans is that I deemed the set not worthy of an FBA sale (damaged box), so I listed it on EBay instead with clear pictures. Now this dropshipper gets my FBA sale - I could have just taken the gamble myself.

Yup...80 percent of my sets on Ebay have some sort of defect...damaged boxes..ranging from severely creased, punctured boxes, dented corners, to just looking shelf worn. I'd say about 20 to 30 percent of my buyers on those sets are drop shippers. I wouldn't gamble my Amazon account but to each their own I guess. Makes me wonder what all of us consider worthy of sending to Amazon for resale.

do you take pictures of each set for your listings? Do your listings say that it is a damaged box and they still buy it?

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do you take pictures of each set for your listings? Do your listings say that it is a damaged box and they still buy it?
Yes and yes.. but again..I think our versions of what exactly is a damaged box vary.

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27 minutes ago, SpaceFan9 said:

The issue I see is risk, and the person shipping the item bears the brunt of the risk in these 3-party / drop-shipping transactions.  Fulfilling drop-shipping orders raises the risk of someone being unhappy with your service: both the end buyer (who may feel they didn't get 'value' on their end of the transaction) and the drop-shipper (e.g. if you don't ship 'fast' enough) may cause the transaction to go bad.  Buyers on Amazon expect a certain level of service.  Transferring that expectation onto an unsuspecting ebay seller raises risk, inappropriately in my mind.

Unhappy customers are not repeat customers.  With drop-shipping, neither the buyer nor the shipper have direct contact, so it's much more difficult to communicate, solve issues, and keep the customer happy.  This question popped up on an FBA item I had in stock a while back: "Ebay shipped to me 60.94. Where is my difference 24.3?"  How is the drop-shipper going to handle this?  "if you're unhappy, return it."  Where as if the transaction had happened directly on ebay, the buyer probably be happier by seeing more value in the transaction, by getting the identical item $24.30 cheaper.

If they were upfront about it, and offered additional compensation for the risk, then I'd probably be OK with it.  But deceiving the shipper by claiming "this is a gift" is total ****.  Tell the truth, and act in ways that make it easy to tell the truth.  The typical drop-shipper does neither.  

Drop-shippers drive me nuts, and I'm happy to have avoided them this year. 

 

For all intend and purpose, in this 3 way transaction, your eBay buyer is toycentric and not his Amazon buyer.  Heck, there is 85% chance his Amzn buyer does not even have an eBay account.  This is very similar to a situation where an uncle/aunt/grandparent buys an eBay item to be shipped to their nephew/grandkid who lives on another state. 

Perhaps this boils down to the sincerity of the buyers.  Did Toycentric lie? Of course, but I would never count on all my buyers to have pure intention 100% of the time

 

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I still do not see what the big deal is.  When the buyer is happy, Toycentric does not leave negative feedbacks.  Yes, your ego gets a hit since someone obviously makes money off of your listing, but at the end of the day you get the price you asked for the item. When the buyer complains, Toycentric gets whatever neg feedback on the Amazon side and he neg you on eBay side.  How is it any different than some lunatic buyer on eBay buying from you directly then complain ?? 

 

The issue is quite simple, with a strong long term selling record on eBay you are almost completely insulated from scammers. Individual results will vary and maybe I have just been super lucky but after thousands of sales on eBay I have yet to get scammed and only 1 return in over a decade. On amazon it’s at least 1% of sales result in a return/claim/scam, higher prices let this be just a cost of doing business on amazon. So let’s do some math: if I sold 100k on eBay in the last few years and those sales had been to drop shippers who passed their amazon claim rate along to me then I’m out an extra $1,000. That’s real money loss that I didn’t get compensated for because I didn’t get the higher amazon prices.  

If an amazon dropshipper is buying large expensive sets such as SSD and using you to drop ship I would be super concerned as high value sets have the highest rate of fraud/scam. Maybe some more seasoned higher sales rate folks can comment on their return/fraud rate for high value sets on amazon. My experience with high value items on amazon was so terrible that I will never sell anything worth more than $200 on amazon again. If a drop shipper was buying high value sets from me on eBay to send to their amazon customers I would be outraged and probably waste thousands to retaliate, I’m talking private investigator etc. whatever it takes. It’s all fun and games until you get burned and realize you are bearing all the marginal risk for none of the marginal profit.

 

The lunatic scammers on eBay can for the most part be avoided and are much easier to defend against. I literally had paint cans with an amazon scammer buyers address on them that the scammer returned to me in lieu of the set I sent them and amazon still sided with them and refunded them. Yes amazon covered the refund but how many times will u get lucky and draw such a stupid scammer.

 

 

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11 hours ago, chrisynd said:

And if you don't follow their demands, ToyCentric will leave you a negative. If you don't believe me, look at their feedback left for others history:

https://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=toycentric&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOthers&ftabfocus=true&searchInterval=30

This is another reason I blocked them.

Screen Shot 2018-12-18 at 10.42.11 AM.png

My eBay account was 100% positive for 14 years until I did business with ToyCentric 😡

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2 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I still do not see what the big deal is.  When the buyer is happy, Toycentric does not leave negative feedbacks.  Yes, your ego gets a hit since someone obviously makes money off of your listing, but at the end of the day you get the price you asked for the item.

When the buyer complains, Toycentric gets whatever neg feedback on the Amazon side and he neg you on eBay side.  How is it any different than some lunatic buyer on eBay buying from you directly then complain ??

The issue is that we are putting ourselves at a much higher risk of a return/negative feedback where the ultimate buyer is being misled about the actual condition of the set/box. We have done the extra work to point out the damage/defects in the condition and presumably sold it for a lower price where the buyer is knowingly and intentionally trading condition for a lower price. Toycentric is not doing this and telling his Amazon buyers that the box is in new condition. An Amazon buyer who isn't willing to trade condition for price may then return the set to us where there is no fault on our part and we don't "deserve" a return and/or negative feedback. If Toycentric was offering his Amazon sets in Collectible - Like New condition with a packaging damaged note, it would be more truthful.

Technically, the "damaged" sets that I sold him were "new and sealed" and I'd absolutely buy them to build but they aren't sets I would personally accept if I really wanted "new" condition to gift to someone except my own kids.

FYI, for the BPer that just sold him that 10221 SSD, his Amazon listing was in new condition for $1069.00. He's got another listing for $1085.00. With about ~$180 in fees, he's netting ~$890 so he may have made up to $150 profit depending on the eBay price.

Also, ToyCentric just got a negative Amazon feedback from someone who was just apparently drop shipped a damaged box and they are not happy and doing a return.

 

Edited by grackleflint
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The issue is that we are putting ourselves at a much higher risk of a return/negative feedback where the ultimate buyer is being mislead about the actual condition of the set/box. We have done the extra work to point out the damage/defects in the condition and presumably sold it for a lower price where the buyer is knowingly and intentionally trading condition for a lower price. Toycentric is not doing this and telling his Amazon buyers that the box is in new condition. An Amazon buyer who isn't willing to trade condition for price may then return the set to us where there is no fault on our part and we don't "deserve" a return and/or negative feedback. If Toycentric was offering his Amazon sets in Collectible - Like New condition with a packaging damaged note, it would be more truthful.
Technically, the "damaged" sets that I sold him were "new and sealed" and I'd absolutely buy them to build but they aren't sets I would personally accept if I really wanted "new" condition to gift to someone else except my own kids.
FYI, for the BPer that just sold him that 10221 SSD, his Amazon listing was in new condition for $1069.00. He's got another listing for $1085.00. With about ~$180 in fees, he's netting ~$890 so he may have made up to $150 profit depending on the eBay price.
Also, ToyCentric just got a negative Amazon feedback from someone who was just apparently drop shipped a damaged box and they are not happy and doing a return.
 

This is exactly the reason why I am not so happy with dropshippers like Toycentric. He is selling the items I have marked as “not Amazon worthy” on Amazon as New. He is exposing himself, but indirectly also me, to the negative ramifications of such actions. If he wants to use me as a dropshipper that’s fine by me as long as he is honest to his customers, but he is not, he is lying to them about the product they are getting (2 ways: by telling them the product will come from Amazon, where in fact it arrives with EBay labeling; and by knowingly sending them damaged product as New).
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1 hour ago, grackleflint said:

The issue is that we are putting ourselves at a much higher risk of a return/negative feedback where the ultimate buyer is being misled about the actual condition of the set/box. We have done the extra work to point out the damage/defects in the condition and presumably sold it for a lower price where the buyer is knowingly and intentionally trading condition for a lower price. Toycentric is not doing this and telling his Amazon buyers that the box is in new condition. An Amazon buyer who isn't willing to trade condition for price may then return the set to us where there is no fault on our part and we don't "deserve" a return and/or negative feedback. If Toycentric was offering his Amazon sets in Collectible - Like New condition with a packaging damaged note, it would be more truthful.

Technically, the "damaged" sets that I sold him were "new and sealed" and I'd absolutely buy them to build but they aren't sets I would personally accept if I really wanted "new" condition to gift to someone except my own kids.

FYI, for the BPer that just sold him that 10221 SSD, his Amazon listing was in new condition for $1069.00. He's got another listing for $1085.00. With about ~$180 in fees, he's netting ~$890 so he may have made up to $150 profit depending on the eBay price.

Also, ToyCentric just got a negative Amazon feedback from someone who was just apparently drop shipped a damaged box and they are not happy and doing a return.

 

Their feedback rating seems to be plummeting; 87% positive in the last 30days with 197 total so it's not just a few bad apples. Maybe he'll get the boot.

I like this one:

Quote

Ordered two items from this seller, but received packages from two different people. Other than that, all good.

I don't much care that the dude is making a buck serving as (yet another) hand between LEGO and the final customer, after all, that's what we're all doing - and hoping to add some value somewhere.

The issue is definitely in the risk exposure as someone mentioned. I just pulled Amazon sales from middle of the year over a few periods and return refund rates are very consistent (and this is with a lot of sales). In dollar terms there's consistently 3.2-3.8% of total sales issued as refunds. Granted, a good chunk of that comes back undamaged and winds up resold or Amazon eats some of it due to carrier damage - but it's pretty consistent. Lots of folks like to use Amazon as LEGO rental it seems. It's how our house winds up with all of its builds. :) 

As others have said, I could count on one hand how many eBay returns I've had over the years - and it's with thousands of sales.

Moving that Amazon return/refund/negative risk onto the eBay seller is what feels dirty.

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here is a wonderful feedback he received

Received all 3 pieces shipped from 3 different people.Paid for shipping to receive one in a plastic USPS envelope crushed. Not very presentable as a gift.After receiving the second one Amazon shows the order as fulfilled so there is no tracking number for the remainder.I received everything I ordered at a good price.Having everything shipped together at once would ease concerns.

 

also i dont get why he would buy a ebay listing that says the box is damaged. It makes no sense.Its just stupidity. the only thing i can think of is that he has a automated program that does the listing/buying and the program cannot differentiate

 

I am pretty sure he was selling on amazon under a different name until this year. (same account just recently changed display name)He always had around a 93 percent feedback rate. I remember that he used to get alot of negatives about late shipping and i wondered why he didnt get his act together .I also used to wonder how he had so many really old sets in stock 

now i guess i know the answer to both questions

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Wow, this thread is a real eye opener for a consumer like me who dabbles in CL and Ebay and buys regularly from Amazon.

I blindly assume Amazon is like a regular big chain store so never really looked closely at the actual seller...just point and click...I've never read or posted a seller review and I probably spent tens of thousands (non-Lego) on Amazon over the past few years.

 

To think a LEgo set  I buy on Amazon is really from an Ebayer who may be a Brickpicker here = mind blown

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13 minutes ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

Wow, this thread is a real eye opener for a consumer like me who dabbles in CL and Ebay and buys regularly from Amazon.

I blindly assume Amazon is like a regular big chain store so never really looked closely at the actual seller...just point and click...I've never read or posted a seller review and I probably spent tens of thousands (non-Lego) on Amazon over the past few years.

 

To think a LEgo set  I buy on Amazon is really from an Ebayer who may be a Brickpicker here = mind blown

lol, welcome to 2018 or 2014?

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21 minutes ago, Sozial said:

lol, welcome to 2018 or 2014?

I have no qualms being a newb...I don't have any experience in reselling (just learned it's costing me over 10+% in ebay seller fees...that was a shocker) and honestly I don't know a single Lego set by its number.

I figure the only thing I can contribute to this forum is exactly what I am and my experiences and perspective...I think I'm pretty much the target market for most of the folks here (40-something dad of a 7 year old w/ plenty of disposable income, propensity to spoil my only child, and a childhood fan of Lego)

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I can say that this seller is very busy (and I bet those dollars add up). I had 2 more orders this morning - Last week there was an issue where he had purchased multiple items, but couldn't complete the transactions (since the combined invoice couldn't be split to different addresses).

A sale is a sale, but when a drop ship buyer keeps coming back for more of the same products, I can't help but feel that I am missing out on a profit somewhere.

It's an interesting strategy, and if it works for him, good for him - For me, it would seem like a giant headache (always waiting to get burned).

Edited by KShine
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This seller is everywhere for sure.  Pretty creative way of making money in my opinion, but I do not support this.  I have been burned too many times by similar sellers.  Often after a set disappears from primary retailer's shelves and I will buy from eBay sellers, only to have my order cancelled and money refunded because they want the higher prices.  Eventually, sellers like this will be booted from Amazon and eBay because there is too much that can (and will) go wrong.  

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Here is his feedback breakdown from March 31st 2017 (farthest back Amazon displays) until December 1st 2018:
850 total feedback.
49 were negatives
5 were neutrals
526 were left “By Mark”…he has since changed Mark to "Anonymous."
On September 13th 2018 he left 99 feedback for himself that day
62% of his feedback are manufactured

About all you can do is send a quick email to community-help@amazon asking them to investigate this garbage.

Some notables:
“Divorce? Hahahahha
By Mark on November 12, 2018.”

“I came out to my parents when I was 12 and I love this item!
By Mark on November 12, 2018.”

“Games are my life.
By Mark on November 12, 2018.”

“Danke, dass meine Kinder mich lieben.
By Mark on November 15, 2018.”

“Arigatou
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“Uhhhhhh ahhhhhhhh!
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“My heart…:…my heart…
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“…i can’t believe it…
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“…my time is near…
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“…goodbye world.
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

“Items arrived damaged, but simply messaged seller and support assisted immediately. Quick resolution.
By Mark on November 3, 2018.”

Some screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/OZm36Xh

Spreadsheet of the feedback as captured on Dec 1st
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WQSxnIbPVVTWpuaFL-RqXyqjq7hyFjgta5iD1QvvExw/edit#gid=0
 

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5 hours ago, $20 on joe vs dan said:

I have no qualms being a newb...I don't have any experience in reselling (just learned it's costing me over 10+% in ebay seller fees...that was a shocker) and honestly I don't know a single Lego set by its number.

I figure the only thing I can contribute to this forum is exactly what I am and my experiences and perspective...I think I'm pretty much the target market for most of the folks here (40-something dad of a 7 year old w/ plenty of disposable income, propensity to spoil my only child, and a childhood fan of Lego)

Plus +3.2% from PayPal if they are managing transaction.  

For eBay, I usually account for 20-24% in fees, shipping, and supplies.  For the most part, I do not invest in sets w/ RRP over $150, so my fees as a pct of sales are typically higher.  This holiday season my average sales price is $92.41 and average fee/shipping/supplies is $19.67 - or 21.33%.  

 

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