junkrigger Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 (edited) On 4/23/2017 at 2:16 PM, KShine said: If it was a parent, they likely knew there were minifigs in the 60lb lot (which there were), but couldn't know enough to say which ones might be there or not. It doesn't seem like they were intending to mislead, but if you really feel like you got shortchanged in the deal - you can certainly open a return request, stating that you were under the impression (after communications) that more minifigs were to be included in the lot (you will win, and they will be responsible for return shipping). eBay needs a clearly defined line between as is incomplete Lego lots as displayed in pictures and complete sets being packaged and sold together or this problem will continue. Questions asked by buyers should not in all cases be allowed to add assumptions about what is in bulk as is lots. Edited April 27, 2017 by junkrigger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadfraggle Posted April 27, 2017 Share Posted April 27, 2017 55 minutes ago, AirborneAFOL said: Just another example of discrimination against vets. You don't know my pain! The struggle is real 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trstnkn Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, junkrigger said: eBay needs a clearly defined line between as is incomplete Lego lots as displayed in pictures and complete sets being packaged and sold together or this problem will continue. Questions asked by buyers should not in all cases be allowed to add assumptions about what is in bulk as is lots. Good points @junkrigger. I think in my case it is a classic example of a parent selling something for a kid, and they have absolutely no clue what they are selling. It is quite hard as an average consumer to accumulate 60 lbs of Legos and only have about 4 ounces of mini figures, accessories and animals. Most bulk sellers clearly state "No Minifigures" if they have been cleared out. In this case, I asked. The response was no, and that they figured there were "many in there". Yes, the answer could be interpreted a million different ways. But at the end of the day, the seller had no idea. Sellers have a responsibility to accurately describe what they sell. If 60 lbs of Legos had just 2 mini figures, is it ok for a seller to say "has mini figures"? In my case, the seller needs a 101 course in customer service as well. I've kept the high road without making any assumptions or demands. They jumped on the low road immediately. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickshopper Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 2 hours ago, trstnkn said: @junkrigger Sellers have a responsibility to accurately describe what they sell. If 60 lbs of Legos had just 2 mini figures, is it ok for a seller to say "has mini figures"? Yes you are acting like a bad buyer. He delivered what was shown in the pictures and you are going to waste a ton of his money shipping these back and forth. When you are buying a bulk lot based on the pictures it is somewhat of a gamble buying used bulk lots it is used bricks, incomplete sets no guarantee of any minifigures unless the seller gives sa specific count or you can clearly see in the pictures. No minifigures or items were pictured that you did not receive so to me it is as described. Where do you draw the line you buy a bulk lot because you see part of a tie fighter and return the lot if it does but not all all the figures for this set buried in the bulk bricks... You and anyone one here encouraging you are the problem on these sites he is probably posting somewhere how you are trying to scam him on a bulk lot used he sold as is and now you want to return because there are not enough minfigures that were once with the sets when they were bought new...Too bad all you need is credit card and a pulse to buy online it takes a lot more to be a seller...You go get him with not as described claim and make the post office 50-100 so he can get his items back even though he delivered the items as pictured. Your biggest problem is they just did not include as many minifigures as you thought it should have based on the sets when they were bought new. These sets now make up a bulk used lot of bricks...Good Grief 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelgazra Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 If the seller had done the necessary research into the product he/she was selling (for their child), and responded accurately when the question was asked, they wouldn't be in this situation. They obviously mislead trstnkn into believing the minifigures for the apparent sets would be present.... not necessarily in the original listing, but when they were asked if the minifigures were included and responded with a flat yes. That's their irresponsibility as a seller. If you can't describe the product you're selling, and lead someone to believe they're buying something they're not.... well, that's a recipe for SNAD. Lesson here to everyone that sells on this board..... Describe your items as clearly and detailed as possible to avoid any chance of this happening to you! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizeur Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) I agree with Zelgazra that the seller provided a misleading answer. And he also isn't covering himself in glory with the followup that trstnkn described. But trstnkn also didn't do enough due diligence when trying to find out about the lot which made the purchase a gamble in the first place. @trstnkn, how much did you pay for the lot? That should probably be the deciding factor in how to pursue this. If you paid a relatively small fraction of the sets' value, then chalk it up to a bad gamble. If you paid a premium, then it might be appropriate to seek another remedy. Edited April 28, 2017 by mizeur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoEdison Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 we need to see the actual listing (picture and wording) in order to see the whole picture. how much are you paying for that 60lb lot? without all these fact, i will assume it is just a soccer mom normal parent selling his son junk. if you are paying $4-5/ lb, i do not see this is an SNAD case. if you are paying $10+, maybe you can argue a little. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy2612 Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 @LegoEdison is correct. What question was asked exactly and how was it answered? For example: does the lot have minifigs? Answer: yes - in that scenario seller is being truthful in their response. Are all the minifigs from all the sets there would be a very different as a question would firmly leave responsibility at the sellers door. Phrasing is everything - you've got to make sure nothing is left open to interpretation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Raichu Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Seriously, @trstnkn could have saved so much time and grief had he asked seller to take pictures of the minifigures included in the lot. That would have given seller opportunity to look closer at the lot they were selling. Also, had the seller's intention was to mislead, the additional pictures would have given @trstnkn solid proof of what were actually missing from the lot he had received. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickshopper Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 8 hours ago, Zelgazra said: If the seller had done the necessary research into the product he/she was selling (for their child), and responded accurately when the question was asked, they wouldn't be in this situation. So to sell a used bulk brick lot on ebay a seller needs to research each of the original sets to find out what minifigures were originally included then search through the bulk to confirm they are included. Maybe 50-100 sets would take hours and need a 5,000 word description. Where is it buyer beware; it is up to the buyer to decide based on the pic and description if this is what they are looking for. If you need to know before buying what is included specifically look for a seller that lists them out or seperates them for a picture or pay a premium for a detailed listing, complete or new listing. You bought a bulk incomplete lot and that is what you received 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, Brickshopper said: So to sell a used bulk brick lot on ebay a seller needs to research each of the original sets to find out what minifigures were originally included then search through the bulk to confirm they are included. Maybe 50-100 sets would take hours and need a 5,000 word description. Where is it buyer beware; it is up to the buyer to decide based on the pic and description if this is what they are looking for. If you need to know before buying what is included specifically look for a seller that lists them out or seperates them for a picture or pay a premium for a detailed listing, complete or new listing. You bought a bulk incomplete lot and that is what you received Unless the seller was clearly intending to deceive. Intentions are important - If the seller clearly was intending to mislead (covering a mega bloks pile w/ LEGO shown on top), staging a listing by placing higher value parts/minifigs on top w/ nothing underneath, stating the condition as excellent, when all the minifigs, etc. are cracked garbage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuttfarkas Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 9 minutes ago, Brickshopper said: So to sell a used bulk brick lot on ebay a seller needs to research each of the original sets to find out what minifigures were originally included then search through the bulk to confirm they are included. Maybe 50-100 sets would take hours and need a 5,000 word description. Where is it buyer beware; it is up to the buyer to decide based on the pic and description if this is what they are looking for. If you need to know before buying what is included specifically look for a seller that lists them out or seperates them for a picture or pay a premium for a detailed listing, complete or new listing. You bought a bulk incomplete lot and that is what you received The buyer has, at his resource, the ability to ask questions before he bids. To that, if I'm interested in a Lot and don't think the photos satisfactory....I ask questions. If I'm interested in minis in the Lot....I'll ask the seller to take more pictures or pull mini figure pieces etc. etc. If they don't want to be bothered and I'm not comfortable about that....I don't bid. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scuttfarkas Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 12 minutes ago, Brickshopper said: So to sell a used bulk brick lot on ebay a seller needs to research each of the original sets to find out what minifigures were originally included then search through the bulk to confirm they are included. Maybe 50-100 sets would take hours and need a 5,000 word description. Where is it buyer beware; it is up to the buyer to decide based on the pic and description if this is what they are looking for. If you need to know before buying what is included specifically look for a seller that lists them out or seperates them for a picture or pay a premium for a detailed listing, complete or new listing. You bought a bulk incomplete lot and that is what you received The buyer should also never assume that there are better pieces (including minis) under the photographed pieces. It is unfair for a buyer to see a photo with even one unique piece of a set showing, bid based on the expectations that the rest of the set is underneath/not photographed and then get mad when those pieces are there. They should ask questions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brickshopper Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 I could understand wanting the specifics on 1 or 2 used sets but to expect a seller to go through a bulk lot and confirm if all the original minifigures to all the original sets are included is ridiculous. Many common peoole would not no where to start you are expecting too much out of a used bulk brick lot sold as is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Brickshopper said: I could understand wanting the specifics on 1 or 2 used sets but to expect a seller to go through a bulk lot and confirm if all the original minifigures to all the original sets are included is ridiculous. Many common peoole would not no where to start you are expecting too much out of a used bulk brick lot sold as is. If a buyer is over the top with requests for detail - this is a clear warning sign to avoid if possible (headaches now, will be more headaches later). If as someone once stated on this site ("I always ask the buyer to send me photos of their bubble wrap") - you need to learn to slowly back away. Edited April 28, 2017 by KShine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelgazra Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 to go through a bulk lot and confirm if all the original minifigures to all the original sets are included is ridiculous I'd agree to some extent, depending on how invested in the sale you are. That said, the fact remains that the answer was misleading. If it was your lot, and you didn't know what exactly was in the lot, and someone asked a specific question about it, would you blindly answer yes at the risk of misleading your buyer? Myself and any responsible seller would probably reply along the lines of 'sorry but I'm not exactly sure, so I'm selling it as-is'.The reply to the question said one thing, the acquired product said another. It was not as described in conversation. Pretty straightforward really. I'm not debating the arguments that at a certain price it's not worth pursuing, but that's an aside to the point of poor seller antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 A parent selling toys that their child no longer plays with can't be expected to know every detail about the item. They know that Johnny had lots of LEGO, we've gathered all the we can find (60 lbs worth), and this is what there is. Are they meant to research that every minifig piece is correct? Would you open a not as described if they said that Obi Wan was included, and when you get it, the legs were wrong? It appears that some here would. If I had a selling platform, my primary rules for both buyers and sellers would be - Be honest, be fair, and don't be an ass. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 So who´s gonna be the detective that finds the original listing so we can judge objectively? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migration Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Any buyer that asks that many questions about a mixed/bulk lot I'm selling gets blocked. End of story. Bulk is bulk, do not buy based on what you think is there, pay only for what you actually see. And no, I am not the seller that started this whole fiasco off. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grynn Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 28 minutes ago, KShine said: A parent selling toys that their child no longer plays with can't be expected to know every detail about the item. They know that Johnny had lots of LEGO, we've gathered all the we can find (60 lbs worth), and this is what there is. Are they meant to research that every minifig piece is correct? Would you open a not as described if they said that Obi Wan was included, and when you get it, the legs were wrong? It appears that some here would. If I had a selling platform, my primary rules for both buyers and sellers would be - Be honest, be fair, and don't be an ass. 19 minutes ago, Val-E said: So who´s gonna be the detective that finds the original listing so we can judge objectively? It's simple, not complicated. (Some people have too much time on their hands, lol) Clearly the lot didn't live up to expectations, but expectations were not verified clearly prior to bidding / paying. It's possible this was a minor scam, but without taking the necessary pre-buying precautions, as a buyer you really don't have anything to stand on besides eBay's tendency to initially always side with you rather than the seller. Personally I would (and have, regarding box condition issues as a collector) take it as a difficult lesson learned and be more careful in the future. As stated earlier, asking for a pic showing even "most" of the minifigures would have avoided the whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trstnkn Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Good, healthy debate - why I frequent Brickpicker. See clear arguments on both sides. Thank you to everyone weighing in. Do want to clear up something that has been misconstrued as the debate continued. In no way was I wanting to know if the sets I could see had all of the mini figures, nor was I expecting that they did. What I did want to know from the seller was whether or not it had been picked through to remove figures en masse. I asked one simple question, and I think a fair question for a bulk lot if it is not stated already. Their answer affirmed that it had not. But the reality was it clearly had. I'll mull over how to proceed. I tried to reach out diplomatically to seller, but they broke @KShine's mantra above without hesitation. Not sure if they are willing to bring it back to civil communication. Now someone bring on another juicy, eBay fruitcake topic... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious_violet Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 Hey guys, I fell susceptible to a scam this week and the seller has already closed shop and left! The product page is now completely unavailable and when I click it says that it was deleted. I got a tracking number but it just says the information was entered but wasnt shipped. Do I open a cancel my order case now for fraud, or wait and open a item did mot arrive case in a month or so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KShine Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, WannabePlatypus said: Hey guys, I fell susceptible to a scam this week and the seller has already closed shop and left! The product page is now completely unavailable and when I click it says that it was deleted. I got a tracking number but it just says the information was entered but wasnt shipped. Do I open a cancel my order case now for fraud, or wait and open a item did mot arrive case in a month or so? What selling platform? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackson Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, WannabePlatypus said: Hey guys, I fell susceptible to a scam this week and the seller has already closed shop and left! The product page is now completely unavailable and when I click it says that it was deleted. I got a tracking number but it just says the information was entered but wasnt shipped. Do I open a cancel my order case now for fraud, or wait and open a item did mot arrive case in a month or so? If the tracking number doesn't show any activity after a few days, you can probably contact eBay to get a refund then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicious_violet Posted April 28, 2017 Share Posted April 28, 2017 What selling platform?eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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